Liar Game Episode 9 Discussion

As predicted Akiyama came to the rescue. Why he is allowed to interfere in the game is unclear though. I am ever so disappointed he is there too, it seems obvious that Nao is incapable of playing the game without Akiyama holding her hand the entire time. Is there any reason to keep watching at this point if the same story beats keep repeating over and over?

Episode 2/5

There was no evolution whatsoever for her, since she continues to depend on Akiyama until the end, lol. She's so pathetic, seriously, she can't think for herself? Okay, she wasn't harmed, but she still doesn't know how to think for herself and depends on others. It's simply comical to see this girl who can't think or do the bare minimum; in fact, everyone among the extras is just as dumb as she is

@Gwynbleidd_Alan
Nao only gets better from now on. Yes, she becomes a full-fledged player by the design. Viewers would see more great moments with Nao and her determination.

I still consider Nao insane personally and I think anime highlights it by showing Nao's emotions in that same episode: from openly crying to smiling to cheating to lying to everyone in a span of two hours. Not to mention being morally destroyed and ostracized.

And the girl is not fazed, that's my way that's my Mr Akiyama she thinks. It's not gutwrenching she lost first game to Fukunaga.

Its the price she paid for it. 30 mil yen that's 250k+ USD bet on "50/50" game after she saw Fukunaga beat Miura to the ground.

Now you can check it against other anime gamblers on a cash value basis, and you'd get a grip on the insaness territory this train is going up full speed. Nao literally bet way more than an average house value in 2005, 85% of her money stack at the single 50/50 game. And then on losing she almost doubled up on her wager.

That's taking a 1:1 debt (40 millions yen) on hit for Nao and Fukunaga took that bait as a child. Now if you never played cash games and it's all but a numbers for you anyway, youd never comprehend how profitable being considered dumb and honest (while having Mr. Akiyama at your back) in this tournament is.

Nao doesn't give a fuck about money whatsoever. Moreover the girl hooked poor Mr. Akiyama into facing other madmen who do give a fuck about money. Now go and tell me she isn't addicted and isn't driven by her mad goal. She shares the exact same insanity trait as Squid Game mc while being female and much more obnoxious on top of that. Ngl to you I don't know how average ongoing manga reader thought Nao is just a pure heart kind girl with no dark traits. Yeah, bet that house away, why not.

Yes, Nao Kanzaki thought 50% win rate means she is winning it on a first take. No matter which situation you are in at 5/10 game rounds, no matter how stressed you are you don't take 50-50 bets from no one. It's not make or break condition at 8/10 onwards... The problem with that type of player: she is always insane whether it's good move, bad move, winning, losing - nah everything stays insane. How can you read her at the place of her opponents now?

@EscapismToTheMax That’s fair. If Nao gets more agency from here on and becomes more of a proper player, then that is exactly what I was hoping for. My criticism was mostly about how she has felt up to this point in the anime, not about where her character might eventually go. So far, she has often felt more like someone who needs to be rescued than someone who is actively growing into the game herself. Getting bailed out repeatedly by Akiyama without much visible progress on her own end is the main reason why she has been frustrating for me. It does not make for the most compelling viewing experience when a character keeps failing in similar ways without enough payoff or visible development, at least in my opinion.

That is why I think some viewers have struggled with her as a character. At this point in the anime, she does not fully feel like a main character who fits naturally into a show like Liar Game yet. And as I mentioned before, I did not love that she had to be bailed out by Akiyama again. Don’t get me wrong. I want the show to succeed and be really fun. I’ve seen you around a lot, and I generally appreciate that you seem to love the series so much. But part of enjoying media is also having the freedom to be critical of certain aspects and talk about what is or is not working for you personally. It’s not like I just want to hate the series or be overly negative. I’m just attempting to narrate my own feelings as I go.

If this is the point where Nao starts turning around and becomes a more active player, then I am all for it. That is exactly the kind of development I have been hoping to see.

nao supposedly having chara dev is still just akiyama's puppet lmao, only good thing about this ep was how Fukunaga got it raw twice.

Can't think or do the bare minimum, but can remember Akiyama's plans and execute them smoothly?

The only way for Nao to compensate Akiyama is to give him the ( sloppiest ) blowjob ever known to man, marry him and serve as his loyal cum dumpster, bro bailed her out all the time let him have her at least it's the only thing she can provide 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

@Rixuel she only obeys him, thinking for herself is something she never does and she's always excessively stupid and innocent. Is her obeying Akiyama an evolution? Of course not, evolution would be her thinking for herself about how to solve things, like, damn, she's an adult, for crying out loud, how long will she continue to act worse than a 6-year-old? I refuse to believe how idiotic a character (even in anime) can be, so "naive" like that

"We agreed not to tell anyone about this" is the most load bearing phrase in this show. I get that the characters aren't seeing the pattern because they're not getting all the narration or exposure to Nao but how could the audience not be burned out on this by now? It feels like the insert music in a Jojo series at this point.

@LotteGiants
You are talking about Nao trading 10 votes for 70 mil with every NPC, right? Well here it's enforced by M-tickets.

On ANY contracts breach you pay 100 mil. So its only natural to them.

@EscapismToTheMax Fukunaga uses that phrase when she initially tricked Nao in this arc and also when she formed the groups in the previous game as well. Any time anyone says "shhhh, don't let anyone else know" its obvious they've just set up the same scam (or are exploiting the weakness of the strategy) with everyone else.

This game kinda sucks, just everyone constantly falling for what Nao and Fukunaga has to offer with no consideration about the other players in this.

At this point, I'm just finding it funny to what Nao would fall for next. I can't believe Fukunaga wouldn't check both cards in the last couple of hands. Why even gamble playing another? Of course she has sus'd you out.

I still don't completely understand the 70m deal to everyone, but i'm just gonna assume it some BS wording in the clause.

This game kinda sucks, just everyone constantly falling for what Nao and Fukunaga has to offer with no consideration about the other players in this.

At this point, I'm just finding it funny to what Nao would fall for next. I can't believe Fukunaga wouldn't check both cards in the last couple of hands. Why even gamble playing another? Of course she has sus'd you out.

I still don't completely understand the 70m deal to everyone, but i'm just gonna assume it some BS wording in the clause.

Sure, the stupid naive girl who fell for a thousand lies now is a master manipulator.

Honestly, I was completely lost as to how that card game trickery worked! 😭

I still had a lot of fun with the episode, though! The second part was especially great! Nao's (and, let's be real, Akiyama's) plan was obvious, but it still felt so good when it was revealed!

@-Benedito- obeys? it's not like akiyama gives her orders. she simply listens to him. don't tell me both are the same thing. Knowing her personality from episode 1 until now, she can't be minimally selfish. Yeah sure, it's not evolution if you learn from other people instead of finding out by yourself, at least, a small progress is better than nothing. Don't think every adult have the same life, same environment, same opportunity, everyone is different and they all have different learning curve. Some get smart quick, some other fail several time before becoming smarter. And since this is an anime, i don't care much if a character is that unrealistically dumb. it's not like nao can do some emotional damage to us.

What was the trick of the cards game again (not how Nao won but how Fukunaga did it in the first place)?
I felt dumber than Nao watching thrice Akiyama's explanation of why it was rigged and still not getting it lol

@LotteGiants
In Minority Rule you got the reason wrong (because it wasnt shown in anime). No one apart from Fukunaga is able to run 3 teams. The way why it's not adviced to let others know of forming up the teams is because the strat exploits others who without any other team formed could be swayed by the question. Thats what prompted Akiyama in a first place - on a first round of voting he got met with worst-case so the most probable scenario is another team was already in play.

For Downsizing it's the nature of the game others shouldn't know, even when it's a fair deal. But Akiyama was first to note it could be enforced by the M-ticket and it was used at the exact right moment. This is poker strat in nutshell. In poker if you know you have the choice either to show or hide your cards when you lost a bet. The only difference is that for that casual poker strat you target the chip leader for your bait all in as he is calling every hand with the pot odds advantage. And it's much harder to run because you need to be aware of other players pushing you while at different positions

Yet it's VERY effective. If anyone else on a table sees your cards through it's game over so that's why it's cool you can enforce with M-tickets here. It's a different theme played out namely OTC trading which brings another reason why you shouldn't disclose any shit. This is more or less another interesting topic on claiming defaults and how netting works, but to put in bluntly, yes you could replicate what Nao did on OTC only if the prices don't move and nobody knows what you doin. Else in real markets youd get caught and exploited, 70 mil for a commodity bundle (10 votes) is no longer a fair price, it would be for example 80 mil to compensate for the increased risk of the default, etc.

This is first time you people see DERIVATIVES trading in Liar Game, but not the last ;) If someone ever heard of the futures expiry and forwards default risk, youd recognize those situations it in Downsizing immediately and you'd probably grasp the only real WINNING strat in that game is to force others default. The best thing is that mangaka knows it and this is why Downsizing is a part of Round 3 in my book. It's not that simple as it was shown :)

Think I'm done. I recall liking the drama many years ago, though not near the level of something like Kaiji or to the extent that I finished it, but I can't find any of the charm now. The rigging of the 50/50 was obvious immediately from the rules, the marking was obvious, that she'd go to everyone was obvious (even if they hadn't already used that trick), that she'll now use her leverage to reverse her debt before payout time is obvious. We're really lacking any clash of strategies here. It's just a series of easy deceptions over easy marks. So when
Nao loses I'm not frustrated with the antagonist, I'm frustrated with her. When she gets a win it's not a satisfying coup but an inevitable outcome of applying any brainpower. Not to mention how ridiculous Akiyama literally coming through a window was.

And while I get that Nao can be easily tricked while staying capable of tricking (with precise instructions), it erases any sort of moral message that if everyone was like Nao the world world would be better and the liar game organization couldn't take advantage of people. She doesn't believe everyone from some sort of principle or inability to conceive of deception. She wouldn't avoid hurting others if she saw the necessity. She's just dumb. After all, how many brain cells does it take to go from I can lie to people to people can lie to me. As for her value as a tool to Akiyama, sure, but there had to be a less frustrating way to the write that. Could have a pair of true friends or something. I'd buy that over letting the person who literally just tricked you twice set all the terms and tools of a gamble.

Think I'm done. I recall liking the drama many years ago, though not near the level of something like Kaiji or to the extent that I finished it, but I can't find any of the charm now. The rigging of the 50/50 was obvious immediately from the rules, the marking was obvious, that she'd go to everyone was obvious (even if they hadn't already used that trick), that she'll now use her leverage to reverse her debt before payout time is obvious. We're really lacking any clash of strategies here. It's just a series of easy deceptions over easy marks. So when
Nao loses I'm not frustrated with the antagonist, I'm frustrated with her. When she gets a win it's not a satisfying coup but an inevitable outcome of applying any brainpower. Not to mention how ridiculous Akiyama literally coming through a window was.

And while I get that Nao can be easily tricked while staying capable of tricking (with precise instructions), it erases any sort of moral message that if everyone was like Nao the world world would be better and the liar game organization couldn't take advantage of people. She doesn't believe everyone from some sort of principle or inability to conceive of deception. She wouldn't avoid hurting others if she saw the necessity. She's just dumb. After all, how many brain cells does it take to go from I can lie to people to people can lie to me. As for her value as a tool to Akiyama, sure, but there had to be a less frustrating way to the write that. Could have a pair of true friends or something. I'd buy that over letting the person who literally just tricked you twice set all the terms and tools of a gamble.

Think I'm done. I recall liking the drama many years ago, though not near the level of something like Kaiji or to the extent that I finished it, but I can't find any of the charm now. The rigging of the 50/50 was obvious immediately from the rules, the marking was obvious, that she'd go to everyone was obvious (even if they hadn't already used that trick), that she'll now use her leverage to reverse her debt before payout time is obvious. We're really lacking any clash of strategies here. It's just a series of easy deceptions over easy marks. So when
Nao loses I'm not frustrated with the antagonist, I'm frustrated with her. When she gets a win it's not a satisfying coup but an inevitable outcome of applying any brainpower. Not to mention how ridiculous Akiyama literally coming through a window was.

And while I get that Nao can be easily tricked while staying capable of tricking (with precise instructions), it erases any sort of moral message that if everyone was like Nao the world world would be better and the liar game organization couldn't take advantage of people. She doesn't believe everyone from some sort of principle or inability to conceive of deception. She wouldn't avoid hurting others if she saw the necessity. She's just dumb. After all, how many brain cells does it take to go from I can lie to people to people can lie to me. As for her value as a tool to Akiyama, sure, but there had to be a less frustrating way to the write that. Could have a pair of true friends or something. I'd buy that over letting the person who literally just tricked you twice set all the terms and tools of a gamble.

Couldn't we replace Nao with Akiyama?
This has been good. I'm not sure how many episodes are left.
If there are only twelve, the season will probably end abruptly.

Think I'm done. I recall liking the drama many years ago, though not near the level of something like Kaiji or to the extent that I finished it, but I can't find any of the charm now. The rigging of the 50/50 was obvious immediately from the rules, the marking was obvious, that she'd go to everyone was obvious (even if they hadn't already used that trick), that she'll now use her leverage to reverse her debt before payout time is obvious. We're really lacking any clash of strategies here. It's just a series of easy deceptions over easy marks. So when
Nao loses I'm not frustrated with the antagonist, I'm frustrated with her. When she gets a win it's not a satisfying coup but an inevitable outcome of applying any brainpower. Not to mention how ridiculous Akiyama literally coming through a window was.

And while I get that Nao can be easily tricked while staying capable of tricking (with precise instructions), it erases any sort of moral message that if everyone was like Nao the world world would be better and the liar game organization couldn't take advantage of people. She doesn't believe everyone from some sort of principle or inability to conceive of deception. She wouldn't avoid hurting others if she saw the necessity. She's just dumb. After all, how many brain cells does it take to go from I can lie to people to people can lie to me. As for her value as a tool to Akiyama, sure, but there had to be a less frustrating way to the write that. Could have a pair of true friends or something. I'd buy that over letting the person who literally just tricked you twice set all the terms and tools of a gamble.

Shocked! I am shocked I tell you, Nao is still an easily tricked idiot and Akiyama has saved her once again. Why is he allowed to be there again?

@Bio


Yeah, because we're still watching the beginning of the story. The anime is currently adapting volume 3 out of 19 of the manga. It's reasonable to expect new antagonists who are smarter and more interesting to be introduced soon. In the first 15 episodes of Kaiji Season 1, the antagonists were less smart than Fukunaga.


Not really. The moral message may be addressed soon. The Downsizing Game isn't even over yet, and you're already judging it without seeing the full picture.


You are totally ignoring the fact that Nao didn't accept the gamble out of nowhere. In a normal situation, of course she would have denied Fukunaga's terms. That's exactly why Fukunaga waited until the end of the fifth round to offer the gamble. Put yourself in Nao's place. She was in a hopeless situation with zero votes and half of the Downsizing Game already gone. Of course she would try to grab onto any glimmer of hope. Fukunaga would have refused to play under any other terms or with any other tools, so what else could Nao possibly do? She didn't know Akiyama would show up to save her, so she had to try something.