Liar Game Episode 8 Discussion

It's only been 8 episodes. Did Tanjirou Kamado learn anything within the first 8 episodes? What about Kirito, Frieren, Ken Kaneki, Kenzou Tenma, or Sailor Moon? Long running series do not develop their characters in 8 episodes. Why is it only a problem with Liar Game?

Kirito... let's not talk about him. He's the poster child of badly written characters in general. Not a good comparison if you want to defend Nao.

Sailor Moon, Demon Slayer (and similar shows) are also a bad comparison due to their length. I'm not expecting quick character development in shows running for 100+ episodes (or for 60 episodes + 3-4 canonical movies). From my understanding, Liar Game will be ~50 episodes.

Kenzou Tenma already shows changes in the span of the first few episodes, if I remember correctly (I read the manga but only watched 10 episodes or so). From respected surgeon to marginalised renegade, from naive to cynical and determined to stop Johan at all costs. It might be just the setup of the series, but there IS some development early on.

Frieren... well, she already changes her heart in episode 1. By episode 4 she learned to trust Fern as a party member and she's ready to start a new journey. And in each and every flashback from there on, we see how much she has changed from the time she travelled with Himmel: even Aura noticed and told her, when they fight each other.

Nao, on the other hand, hasn't shown any development yet. Still gullible despite all her previous bad decisions, still overly reliant on Akiyama to get out of troubles.
And the point is, side characters don't grow either.
Take Frieren: even assuming that Frieren doesn't grow during the show (since her growth is more a contrast between her present self and her old self), we still have character growth with Fern and Stark. Ep-5-Stark is very different from ep-15-Stark. Same for Fern.
In LG? Heh, nothing relevant so far, no side character has shown any sign of growth.

Liar Game is a longer manga than Monster, which has 74 episodes. That is almost as long as Demon Slayer.


If true, that is a difference of 10 episodes. Liar Game hasn't gotten that many episodes yet. If you want to complain about Fukunaga's development, give Liar Game the same courtesy you gave Frieren and wait until episode 15.

The next round will introduce a 3rd character who can think.

@Crogan247 @Kyou_Ryuu
I imagine that we're being lectured by an anime character.
https://myanimelist.net/character/267991
He's a fan of this anime too.

@Lucifrost
Good try, gave me a good laugh. Gnossia is amazing, yep.

Nah, I chose to impersonate Yokoya because Nao haters obviously asked for it, haha. I don't give two fucks about feelings of Nao haters whether they'd understand it or not. It's just here for Round 3 hype as I have explained so many times.

As far as the MAL accolades go.. Well, I slam those kiddies shit first and utmost because they are nowhere close to real money and gambling. If people want to know how its in real life, they should ask and listen to me. If they don't, it's fine either way, new fans would appreciate it. Everyone has a purpose to serve.

So haters actually bleed for a greater good here cause no either way I am telling people anything "just to share an opinion, brah" ;)

I still remember you tagging to me in the first few threads (maybe ep. 1 or 2) making a fuss because I like Clannad and Frieren. :)
Feels like retaliation to me: "you mocked something I like? Then I'll check your profile to mock something you like."

Pretty childish behaviour in general if you ask me, regardless of who you talk to.

I might understand you trying to defend a show you love, but using derogatory terms directed at REAL PEOPLE (not anime characters) will never sit well with me.
You can tell yourself whatever you want about the people you insult, to convince yourself you did nothing wrong, but you don't know who is reading from the other side of the screen, and how they feel.

Same goes for people insulting you, of course. I always talk to you because you're always the most vocal in these threads.

Nobody wants to see that. He's as annoying as Racio.

She is 18 years old and likely had a sheltered childhood.

It is crazy that this entire series completely falls apart if anyone just ignores it when someone else says "by the way, don't tell anyone else about this". I can buy Kanzaki getting duped by every new person that tricks her but to immediately get duped by Fukunaga twice right after spending an entire game against her is just ridiculous. Sure, its a loser round and the people there are all easily manipulated bums, but come on.

It's only been 8 episodes. Did Tanjirou Kamado learn anything within the first 8 episodes? What about Kirito, Frieren, Ken Kaneki, Kenzou Tenma, or Sailor Moon? Long running series do not develop their characters in 8 episodes. Why is it only a problem with Liar Game?

How did Nao get fooled twice for the same person?

@Lucifrost its a false equivalency. I’m not gonna break down why each example doesn’t make sense, I’m just gonna say that if you screw me over and put me $100 million in debt, your not fooling me the second time. Yet Nao believes her 100%. I just cannot accept this.

@Crogan247
Congratulations on being smarter than an anime protagonist.

@YorForgersSlave
I'm eternally obliged to its creators to let it finally happen.

Liar Game is the Mastodonte work which inspired a lot of series which built huge fanbases by itself (Squid Game, Tomodachi Game, Danganronpa, Cote by the looks of it - personally can't confirm) and TV shows, dethroned Death Note in a process, brought Poker and Finance/Economics to the uneducated audience, set a lot records along the way and kicked Nao haters to the curb. I think that's literally the best thing ever.

For those who actually been involved in Contracts/Gambling/Teams Positioning, it's also can be a playbook of a sorts, though it's something from another planet compared to casual level people tend to watch the shows. Liar Game has the best game & tournament design period. If you have a play-to-win mentality and able to follow through all the situations, hidden possibilities and rules loopholes never shown in the show, etc. Its a grand sandbox. I mean I don't think people just able to follow it closely.

Round 3 is non-mahjong game yet the game is so hard you'd find manga readers don't understand it fully (so for them it's like a Mahjong). That's an achievement by itself in this genre. I mean from the non-lethal non-mahjong games Liar Game is undisputed top 1, and including lethal ones it's top 3 (together with Kaiji and Usogui), both of which are manga only mostly

For shonen fans, maybe this analogue works better. I'd argue Liar Game is same level as Steel Ball Run but that's because of characters who yet enter the fray. One hell of a journey for sure

@EscapismToTheMax Look bro, obviously this show means a lot to you if you're willing to shill for it so hard, but for me, it's extremely difficult to keep suspending my disbelief like that.

I don't expect Nao to be a genius in these situations like Akiyama is, but I also don't expect her to have the awareness of a cucumber.
Teaming up with the woman that stabbed her in the back (as well as many others) in the last game? She is as dumb as a bag of rocks, I'm sorry lol.

I can forgive it once with her teacher from the past - since it was her first time in the game and she had that former connection with him - but after that, she should have wisened up at least a little. But she still went into the next game naive and is even worse in the third one imo.
She's staying dumb and naive.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume she smartens up later, but as of right now, it feels like there is no development to her - she stays dumb. She's presented as the main character, and if they want me to care about her, they need to not make her this stupid. But now, I'm actively cheering for her to lose lol.

Just my two cents.

@rayeine
The reason you dropped the manga is the fact its not for you. Those games are not for you. I mean when people try to get some critical thinking into what they post and have on their MAL account.

Darwin Game. Now that's the show for Liar Game fans where everything is "so dumb it's unbearable". It's just a choice preference, don't make it as a statement.

You just dropped Liar Game because you can't stand the character (fair), but don't tell us in face (she is such dumb that's why I can't stand it). You standed way more dumber chars, like dump level of dumbness (cause it shonen, duh) and by the looks of it it went fine.

But for some strange reason people feel ASCENDED when they hate on Nao in LG threads. I mean even if it were true and Nao was dumb, what kind of hypocrisy we are dealing with each time.

@Lucifrost its a false equivalency. I’m not gonna break down why each example doesn’t make sense, I’m just gonna say that if you screw me over and put me $100 million in debt, your not fooling me the second time. Yet Nao believes her 100%. I just cannot accept this.

@Lucifrost why does everybody here resort to an appeal to triviality to defend this show. Just accept that Nao is an unlikeable character and move on. Your not even making a relevant point anymore.

It's only been 8 episodes. Did Tanjirou Kamado learn anything within the first 8 episodes? What about Kirito, Frieren, Ken Kaneki, Kenzou Tenma, or Sailor Moon? Long running series do not develop their characters in 8 episodes. Why is it only a problem with Liar Game?

@Lucifrost I think the “only 8 episodes” argument depends heavily on pacing and genre. Eight episodes is not nothing. In a 12 episode anime, that is already two thirds of the season, and even in a longer story, 8 episodes is enough time to show whether the protagonist is starting to learn from the central conflict. I am not saying Nao needs to be fully developed or suddenly become a mastermind by this point. That was never my argument. Character progression does not mean character completion. My issue is that in a series literally built around lying, betrayal, and psychological manipulation, I would like to see clearer signs that she is adapting to those situations she keeps finding herself in.

The problem is not that she is kind or trusting. That can be an interesting character trait. The problem is that if her innocence keeps leading to the same kind of mistakes without enough visible growth or self-awareness, it starts feeling repetitive rather than compelling.

The examples you mentioned are also very different kinds of stories. I would not judge Tanjiro, Kirito, Frieren, Tenma, Sailor Moon, or Kaneki by the exact same standard, because their stories are built around different hooks. And I never said it was just a problem with Liar Game. It can be a problem in any kind of story. In Liar Game it just sticks out like a sore thumb because the main appeal is strategy, deception, and adaptation. So if the protagonist keeps struggling with the same core lesson, it directly affects the tension for me.

So my point is not “why is she not fully developed after 8 episodes?” My point is “why does it still feel like she has not adapted enough to the main premise after being exposed to it multiple times?”

I know. Liar Game is not a 12 episode anime. I compared Liar Game to other long manga because it is longer than Monster and Stardust Crusaders, to give a pair of well known examples.


That is because Liar Game is not a power fantasy like most shounen and isekai.

@YorForgersSlave
Let's be REAL here for three things.

First of all, Liar Game manga being that high acclaimed is a fact. In no fucking world anime only haters opinion matters OVER THE FACTS and opinion of manga readers. It's raw truth that won't be changed no matter what and it's the main part of the quoted message.

Second is personal. When you write "suspension in disbelief" how much money you have gambled or put under the risk in stress? How much you participated in tournaments and played cash games against other people? You see what I mean or not (for male Nao haters it's also a question how much they are accustomed with females as well as male chauvenism is a thing)

True, if you are speaking to other casuals you can probably get away with it and stay at that level, I don't really mind. But readers in the thread need to understand the other side of the story. I'm telling everyone from a professional perspective exactly as I'm going to tell people in future FX Trading anime thread whether it works that way or not and whats the foundation for each move. If I see BS, I call on it immediately.

The only thing casuals probably would get from this show is that Round 3 finally dethrones Death Note (and Round 4 drags its corpse along the road) as the biggest mind games showdown on anime screen. Once again this is a motherfucking fact, you can heed off to reddit scd to read all the details. Other than that Liar Game is not a mainstream show same way as calculated Poker is not mainstream. People may hate me for this, but

Haters complain in such abysmal fashion so their casual or worse delusional worldview which don't matter much in a high stakes world or grand design of Liar Game. You have countless other animes where it's not the case and it's not like Im having a control over the hate flow here either. I mean if you think Nao is dumb and you drop anime for it just don't pretend you of any smart or your worldview should be of factor and that's it. But when people go overboard, I see an opportunity to nail a message and I'm doing it. Cause by the end of the day I think the suspension of disbelief should go back to the haters words. I ran my good share of haters straight into the sawdust so others can decide anything else on their own. And I impersonated Yokoya for it so if haters survive onto Round 3, they at least feel it.

Sorry I have to repeat myself, the only way to make any good of Nao hate is this. Was saying that Liar Game is not for normies before anime aired because this shit storm is easily forecasted

Why people getting so mad just because of a fictional character lol. Just relax and enjoy the game itself. For who wants to drop the show, at least wait til round 3. I really want to know how the haters who keep screaming about Nao and that the game is so predictable would feel about round 3.

@orion1093 I guess they will troll and continue to say it's predictable again like they did with round 2. They might "predict" the outcome but I bet they didn't predict at all the tactics itself

@Rixuel
Here it takes an S-type of player to predict the outcome other than "Nao survives". It's an One Outs-level of game flip and also very iconic Nao moment with a cool foreshadowing.

It also the reason why the combination of (Minority/Majority Rule flips and Downsizing) became the foundation of Tomodachi Game and Classroom of the Elite social games. The payoff for the viewer is huge and it's not poker level of science, it's a perfect sandbox.

I think what I most like of Round 3 is that after that flip you got handed immediately after even a bigger curve ball and it's different game which changed everything forever and have nothing close to it in complexity other than Usogui (takes much longer to reach that compared to LG though). Round 3 is all about S-type moves versus S-type moves till it truly explodes.

And what I like in Anime - they capture that tone both in Fukunaga ominous backgrounds but also how ruthlessly she beated Miura. It's not a death game, but now its getting to the dark territory with the reveals, villains and stuff, every other non-Mahjong game pales in comparison.

I want to see people whod dare criticize Round 3 except "damn it's so complex for me plz help hahaha". No "dumb" Nao to point their hatred to, no nothing, Chekhov's guns blazing off. Two weeks xD

(the only thing people can argue is better done than Round 3 is Round 4, so this is why Season 2 hype is necessary afterwards. From haters to lovers, flip flip, hail new king, bye Death Note)

@EscapismToTheMax Is S-type the highest rank for you or you might have SS-Type rank too? lol

The Fact That Fukunaga kicked that red hair guy to shut his mouth up when he was talking to nao but 8 fricking people couldn’t just throw some punch(she aint even a woman) to fukunaga when she first came to propose a scheme and just tape her mouth and throw her in a corner.Everyone In The Game Knows Well By Now that she is the most selfish person and will betray at any time.
The Author Made Everyone dumb just to make fukunaga look smart which she is very much not.Plot at it’s peak

@Lucifrost I think you’re arguing against a point I’m not making. I never said Nao needs to become overpowered or that Liar Game should be a power fantasy. I’m saying that repeated exposure to deception should create some visible adaptation or self-awareness. A character can learn from their experiences without suddenly becoming a mastermind. That is not power fantasy, that is basic character progression. My issue is not that she struggles. My issue is that the same kind of struggle starts feeling repetitive when the story does not show enough growth from it. And I feel like that's the problem most people have with Nao, me included.

@Gwynbleidd_Alan “I think you’re arguing against a point I’m not making.” - This is literally everyone here that’s defending this show, it’s baffling. They are all doing exactly this, and trying to make all of us argue in circles, before saying our opinions don’t matter cause we haven’t seen “round 3” yet. Nobody seems to be able to think from an alternative perspective.

I'd sum it up as such: Nao character development is already in place because she persist with trust. It's not dumb if you can run the strats Nao does afterwards.

For her it's a fine play, just another cool day with Mr. Akiyama doing cool and honorable things. For all the stress and situations she is in and moves she does it's working as a reverse psychology.

Nao nor dumb nor clever she is a mad if you put yourself in her shoes. She just hungry and energetic to win to speak to people etc

If you ever played cash game what youd strike you the most Nao don't look like she's playing a cash game. Shes moved by emotions, she never thinks of money as of money and that's an immense strength in gambling. Nao is a reverse of Kaiji (who's always pressured with money and survival) and I kinda dislike both.

But damn you can't say they aren't entertaining. Though you can't learn anything from a madman, I admire Nao is so real and has hidden dark sides.

@Crogan247 Yeah, I get what you mean. That’s mostly what I was trying to say as well. I don’t mind people defending the show or disagreeing with the criticism. They have every right to do that. But in the same way, people also have the right to express frustration with certain plot points or character writing without it being dismissed entirely.

And when that criticism gets answered with “just wait until later,” “you haven’t seen enough yet,” or personal assumptions about the person making the criticism, it does not really address how the writing feels at the point we are currently discussing. Future payoff can add context later, sure, but it does not automatically invalidate someone’s frustration with the way the story is currently unfolding.